Wednesday, November 30, 2011

Stronger Lure for Prospective Home Buyers

Owning Continues to Become More Affordable Relative to Renting, but Several Obstacles Prevent Many From Biting

VIA The Wall Street Journal

Home prices and mortgage rates have fallen so far that the monthly cost of owning a home is more affordable than at any point in the past 15 years and is less expensive than renting in a growing number of cities.
The Wall Street Journal's third-quarter survey of housing-market conditions in 28 of the nation's largest metropolitan areas found that home values declined in all but five markets compared with the second quarter, according to data from Zillow Inc. Meanwhile, rent levels have risen briskly across the country and mortgage rates, hovering around 4%, are the lowest in six decades.

As a result, monthly mortgage payments on the median priced home—including taxes and insurance—are lower than the average rent levels in 12 metro areas, according to data compiled for The Wall Street Journal by Marcus & Millichap, a real-estate brokerage that tracked 27 metro areas. It remains less expensive to rent than to buy in 15 cities. But affordability hasn't done much to lift the sagging housing sector because many would-be buyers are unwilling to purchase a home or unable to qualify for a mortgage.
"It's one of the most striking developments of the housing downturn," said Paul Dales, an economist at Capital Economics. "The initial building blocks for a recovery are in place, but the legacy of the recession is really preventing households from taking advantage."
In Atlanta, which had the most favorable values for owning versus renting, the monthly payment on the average home was $539 assuming a 20% down payment during the third quarter. By contrast, the average asking rent stood at $840, according to the Marcus & Millichap data.

But real estate agents and economists say the trend hasn't boosted demand. That is because affordability alone hasn't been enough to overcome the obstacles in the way of a housing recovery. Some homeowners who would like to move up to larger properties are stuck because they can't sell their homes.

Owner's Advantage

Also, while the monthly carrying costs on a mortgage are lower than average rents in some cities, home ownership carries other costs—including taxes, insurance, homeowner association dues and maintenance—which may dissuade some potential owners.

Other would-be buyers can't qualify for mortgages because lending conditions are tight or because they don't have enough equity in their current homes to use as a down payments. "The reality of coming up with the down payment and the loan-qualification standards makes things much different than the raw numbers suggest," says Hessam Nadji, managing director of Marcus & Millichap. And even those who may qualify remain skittish about buying property in a market where prices could fall amid foreclosures and weak job growth.

Ryan Young illustrates the point. He is under contract to buy a three-bedroom home in Washington Grove, Md., that will have monthly mortgage, tax, and insurance costs for around $150 less than the $1,900 he is paying to rent a slightly smaller house in Bethesda, Md. He qualified for a 30-year mortgage with a 3.95% fixed rate. Still, Mr. Young says he is cautious about owning his first home with the prospect of future price declines. "Buying a house is not a good financial decision, per se, but we needed a bigger place," said the 35-year-old scientist, "and we don't want to move every couple of years into a new rental."

Other cities where owning is now cheaper than renting include Detroit, Minneapolis, Orlando, Las Vegas, Miami, St. Louis, Chicago and Phoenix.
Home ownership is also looking more affordable because after several years of declines, apartment rents will rise by around 4% this year, says Mr. Nadji. He says rents are poised "to pick up even more momentum across the country next year."
HOUSINGEven cities where it is still cheaper to rent than own have seen big boosts in affordability. In San Diego, the monthly cost of owning a home has averaged around 83% more than renting over the past two decades. During the third quarter, owning was 22% more expensive than renting, according to John Burns Real Estate Consulting.
A new development in Canonsburg, Pa. The inventory of homes on the market has fallen from levels seen a year ago, as prices and mortgage rates continued to decline.
Mortgage rates are a big reason why affordability continues to improve. In 1991, a $1,700 mortgage payment allowed a borrower to take out a $200,000 mortgage. Today, it gets that homeowner a $350,000 loan, a 77% increase in borrowing power, says Dan Green, a loan officer with Waterstone Mortgage, in Cincinnati. At the same time, low mortgage rates aren't spurring sales because few analysts expect rates to rise anytime soon. The Federal Reserve in August said it would keep rates at ultralow levels for two years. In a normal interest rate cycle, "when they go low, they don't stay for very long, and people jump in," said Mr. Dales. "This time, there is no urgency."

Affordability could continue to improve as prices slide even lower in coming months. Price declines are likely because the share of "distressed" sales, including bank-owned foreclosures, tend to rise in the winter, when traditional sales activity cools. Banks are often much quicker to cut prices to unload properties quickly, which means that the greater the share of "distressed" sales, the more prices tend to fall.

One hopeful sign is that inventories have fallen from their bloated levels of one year ago. All 28 cities in The Wall Street Journal's latest survey saw homes listed for sale fall from one year ago, when markets were reeling with a substantial overhang of properties amid a big drop in demand. Visible inventory was down sharply in several markets, including by almost half in Miami and 40% in Phoenix.

Low inventories have spurred more bidding wars at the low end of the market as investors compete for homes that they can convert into rentals. In Sacramento, it would take just 2.5 months to sell the listed inventory at the current sales pace. Las Vegas has a 4.3 month supply of inventory, according to John Burns Real Estate Consulting. But the potential supply of homes is much bigger because banks have yet to process hundreds of thousands of potential foreclosures.

Pending Sales of Existing U.S. Homes Exceed Forecasts With 10.4% Increase

Via BLOOMBERG




The number of Americans signing contracts to buy previously owned homes rose more than forecast in October as buyers took advantage of falling prices and low borrowing costs.

The index of pending home sales increased 10.4 percent, the biggest gain since November 2010, after falling 4.6 percent the prior month, figures from the National Association of Realtors showed today in Washington. Economists forecast a 2.0 percent increase, according to the median estimate in a Bloomberg News survey.

While mortgage rates near record lows are helping some buyers purchase housing that’s growing more affordable as prices drop, 9 percent joblessness and tight lending standards are keeping others out of the market. A new wave of foreclosures may augment the property oversupply, triggering further slides in value and delaying an industry recovery.

“Any improvement in sales and building activity in the housing market is welcome,” Ellen Zentner, senior U.S. economist at Nomura Securities International Inc. in New York, said before the report. “While there has been no impetus for a renewed downturn in housing, there’s been no impetus as of yet for a turn upward.”

Bloomberg Survey

Estimates for pending home sales ranged from a drop of 2 percent to an increase of 5.6 percent, according to the median of 37 forecasts in the Bloomberg survey.

Pending home sales were up 7.3 percent from October 2010.
Three of four regions showed an increase in contract signings from a month earlier, led by the Midwest. Only the West showed a decrease, with a 0.3 percent decline.

“Home sales have been plodding along at a sub-par level while interest rates are hovering at record lows,” NAR chief economist Lawrence Yun said in a statement accompanying the release. “There is a pent-up demand from buyers who normally would have entered the market in recent years.”
Today’s report showed an index level for pending home sales of 93.3 on a seasonally adjusted basis. A reading of 100 is consistent with the average level of contract activity in 2001 and coincides with “historically healthy” home-buying traffic, according to the NAR.
Because they track contract signings, pending home sales are considered a leading indicator. Existing homes sales are tabulated when a contract closes, typically a month or two later.

Attracting Buyers

A report from the NAR last week showed sales of previously owned homes unexpectedly rose in October, suggesting that falling prices may be attracting buyers. Purchases increased 1.4 percent to a 4.97 million annual rate. The median price fell 4.7 percent from a year earlier.

As cheaper properties may make purchasing a home more appealing to some, the threat of continued declines could keep potential buyers waiting until they believe the market has bottomed.

A temporary halt on foreclosures stemming from faulty seizures that is coming to an end threatens to unleash more seized properties, further weighing on prices. In the third quarter, U.S. lenders started foreclosures on more homes, the first increase in a year.

“We’re in a market that’s quite fragile,” Ara Hovnanian, chairman and chief executive officer of Hovnanian Enterprises Inc. (HOV), said during a Nov. 9 investor conference. “While delinquency rates have taken a little dip, on the whole, there is nothing that says that foreclosures are going to change dramatically over the near term, however you define that.”

The S&P/Case-Shiller index of home values in 20 cities slid 3.6 percent in September, capping 12 straight months of declines, the group said yesterday. Nationally, prices decreased 3.9 percent in the third quarter from the same time in 2010.

Here are the numbers by region:
  • Northeast: Contracts were up 17.7%, which was 3.4% above October 2010.
  • Midwest: Contracts were up 24.1%, which was 13.2% above October 2010.
  • South: Contracts were up 8.6%, which was 9.7% above October 2010.
  • West: Contracts feel slipped 0.3%, but were up 8.1% over October 2010.

Tuesday, November 22, 2011

Happy Thanksgiving!



Let us be grateful to people who make us happy; they are the charming gardeners who make our souls blossom.”Marcel Proust


Another Thanksgiving holiday is upon us.  A day set aside when many of us reflect on the blessings bestowed upon us as we gather around a table surrounded by the warmth of our family and friends.  At this time, I wish to thank my wonderful clients who have made my profession so very rewarding!  May your holidays be safe and filled with joy.



Feeling gratitude and not expressing it is like wrapping a present and not giving it”
William Arthur Ward


From our home to yours, we wish you a very blessed Thanksgiving and a wonderful holiday season!


Florence Mattar
Coldwell Banker Beverly Hills North
301 North Canon Drive, Suite E
Beverly Hills, California 90210
310.927.2777


Sunday, November 20, 2011

Celebrating the 68th Anniversary of the Independence of the Republic of Lebanon in Los Angeles

Glenda Wina, our hostess the Consul General of Lebanon, Mrs Madonna Aoun Ghazal and I celebrated the 68th Anniversary of the Independence of the Republic of Lebanon in Los Angeles


On Sunday, November 20, 2011, it was my great privilege to take part in the 68th Anniversary of the Independence of the Republic of Lebanon in Los Angeles.  It was a wonderful event arranged by the consul general of Lebanon, Mrs Madonna Aoun Ghazal. 


I had the pleasure of spending time with Glenda Wina and Councilman Dennis Zine



Florence Mattar
Coldwell Banker Beverly Hills North
301 North Canon Drive, Suite E
Beverly Hills, California 90210
310.927.2777

The Best Value In One of Los Angeles' Finest Neighborhoods

Holmby Hills
LA VILLA CONSOLATA
Neighboring the beautiful Los Angeles Country Club and a few doors away from Candy Spelling's former sprawling mansion in Holmby Hills that just recently sold for $85 Million is  one of the most elegant spectacular estates ever built in Los Angeles.

Over 27,800 square feet of the utmost quality and luxury on over an acre. Enormous impressive domed entry, several sitting rooms, formal dining room, one of a kind gourmet kitchen, breakfast room, many fireplaces, high ceilings throughout, patios overlooking gardens and views. Indoor and Outdoor pools, gym, massage room, game room, two level library. Underground disco and guard house. 
Located in the Holmby Hills area which is a prime location, 5 minutes from Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.
Status: Active
Property Type: Residential
Year Built: 1993
Bedrooms: 6
Baths: 13.5
Living Area 27,816. Sq. ft.
Lot Size: 51,400.  Acres



Spelling, widow of legendary TV producer Aaron Spelling, put the 4.7-acre Holmby Hills residence up for sale years ago at $150 million.  The Manor sold in the Summer of 2011 for a reported $85 million.
















Florence Mattar
Coldwell Banker Beverly Hills North
301 North Canon Drive, Suite E
Beverly Hills, California 90210
310.927.2777

Swarovski Elements decks out Rodeo Drive with holiday bling

Courtesy of The Los Angeles Times
November 20, 2011


As if Rodeo Drive needed any more glitz, the retail mecca is about to get crystallized for the holiday season, thanks to Swarovski Elements.

The crystal company is known for providing glittery pieces to countless fashion and accessory companies. On Monday it plans to unveil a holiday installation that will remain through Jan. 3 on Rodeo Drive’s median, just north of Wilshire Boulevard.






This is the first time Swarovski Elements is taking over the street for the holiday season. It has similar installations at Harrod’s department store in London and Takashimaya stores in Tokyo and Singapore.
Nearly 55,000 crystals will festoon Beverly Hills’ famous shopping street, 41,775 of them used for the interactive sculpture on the median. The sculpture isn’t in the shape of an evergreen, twinkling star, angel or swan, as you might expect around the holidays. Instead the company went for a more modern and somewhat scientific approach, designing the sculpture to look like a DNA helix to convey the idea of communication and the various ways in which we transmit information.

The ribbon-like sculpture with intertwining strands  -- that's an artist's rendering, above --  will display messages sent from people all over the world. Participants can tweet a message with the hash tag #letitsparkle or, in the U.S. only, text the word “sparkle” followed by a greeting to 877877. The messages will appear on a ticker tape-like structure built into the sculpture. People’s sentiments will appear in the languages in which they are sent.
Tweets and texts aren’t the only interactive portion of the Swarovski Elements holiday event. Shopping is part of the equation too, since several retailers on the street have created items using Swarovski Elements crystals that are exclusive to their Rodeo Drive locations. Missoni, La Perla, Escada and Ferragamo are among the shops participating.

In addition, more than 1,700 crystals will embellish Rodeo’s palm trees and about 10,000 crystals will deck holiday banners.

Swarovski couldn’t comment on how much all the bling is worth, but given that single beads offered on the company’s website start at about $10.50 each, a display using more than 50,000 crystals is lavish indeed.

For anyone who loves bling (and we’re guessing that’s the majority of those who flock to Rodeo, whether to buy or drool), then the combo of crystals and high-end shopping should be festive indeed.

Saturday, November 19, 2011

Benedict Canyon Saudi Prince Mega-Compound Disagreement



Courtesy of/Via HAUTE LIVING
Posted By Alison Cavatore
Photography by Curbed LA | Vanity Fair
In Benedict Canyon, Saudi Prince Abdulaziz ibn Abdullah ibn Abdulaziz al Saud is causing a stir with his neighbors as he plans to build a 60,000 square foot mega-compound on three parcels of land.


Totaling 5.2 acres at the end of Tower Lane, Saudi Prince Abdulaziz ibn Abdullah ibn Abdulaziz al Saud’s planned project is terrifying his wealthy neighbors. Led by Benedict Canyon resident Martha Karsh, whose husband is the cofounder of Oaktree Capital Management and a billionaire, neighbors have fought the mega-compound and recently the LA Planning Department has said the prince will need a full environmental review before he can begin construction.


The land, which the prince wants to build on, was once home to a Wallace Neff-design Spanish Colonial built by War and Peace director King Vidor. Jon Peters, producer of Rain Man, tore it down in a fit of pique during a nasty divorce.

Due to a 2005 ordinance, there are 12 feet height limits to retaining walls. The day before the ordinance went into effect, Jon Peters received a permit to build a retaining green wall that was more than 20 feet tall. In addition, before he tore the house down, Peters constructed a giant below-ground showroom to house his Ferrari collection. According to old listings for the property, the showroom can fit 14 cars.


Peters was once friends with Martha Karsh and she asked him to let her do some work that required equipment to be run through his driveway. One day when he came home, he found 20 trucks in his front yard and from that day on, the friendship was over and “it was war.” He also claims the Karshes attempted to purchase his property, but he refused to sell it to them.


Peters was the one who commissioned plans for a mega-compound from one of Los Angeles’ most prolific mansion architects, Richard Landry. When the prince purchased the land, he got the plans included in the package.


Florence Mattar
Coldwell Banker Beverly Hills North
301 North Canon Drive, Suite E
Beverly Hills, California 90210
310.927.2777

Coldwell Banker Releases Prices Of Homes In College Markets, Westwood (L.A.) Tops List

By: Darren Rovell
CNBC Sports Business Reporter
Courtesy of CNBC

Real estate company Coldwell Banker has released its annual list of average home listings in college football towns (FBS). The average prices are for a three-bedroom, two bathroom home.

Here are some of the highlights.

The cheapest home in a college football market is Memphis, Tenn.

At an average of $89,244, it's the only market that features an average listing of less than $100,000. After Memphis, the next five markets are all in the MAC: Muncie, Ind. (Ball State) is #2 at $107,346, Ypsilanti, Mich. (Eastern Michigan) is #3 at $107,458, Toledo is #4 at $112,688, Kalamazoo, Mich. (Western Michigan) is $116,455 and Buffalo is $123,212.

I'm not a real estate expert, so some things definitely surprised me. Fort Worth, Texas (home of TCU) came in at 8th cheapest with an average listing of $128,491, cheaper than the likes of Lubbock, Texas ($133,136), home of Texas Tech and Moscow, Idaho ($140,182), where the University of Idaho is located.

WESTWOOD VILLAGE, HOME OF UCLA
I've been to both South Bend, Indiana (Notre Dame), and El Paso, Texas (UTEP) and I'm surprised that the average home in South Bend was listed for only $1,500 more than El Paso ($152,106 vs. $150,644). As far as rivalries go, houses by Oklahoma State (Stillwater) were about $9,000 less than houses by the University of Oklahoma (Norman).

Although they are so close
to each other, UNC (Chapel Hill, NC) is much more expensive ($327,888) than homes near Duke (Durham, NC), which average a listing of $182,392.

There's not a lot of shock in the most expensive college towns: Led by the Westwood area of Los Angeles (UCLA) and Palo Alto, Calif (Stanford), which average listings of $1,271,428 and $1,232,070, according to Coldwell Banker.

Home Sales in L.A. Jump by 6.6 Percent

Courtesy of The Beverly Hills Courier
 
(CNS) Posted Tuesday November 15, 2011– 2:00pm
 
Home sales in Los Angeles County jumped by 6.6 percent in October, compared to the same month a year ago, while prices dipped by 7.7 percent, a real estate information service announced today.
A total of 5,830 homes changed hands locally last month, compared to 5,470 in October 2010, according to La Jolla-based DataQuick. The median price of a home in Los Angeles County in October was $300,000, down from $325,000 in October 2010.

In Orange County, 2,241 homes were sold in October, down 2.5 percent from October 2010, when 2,298 were sold. The median home price was $405,000 last month, down 7.5 percent from $438,000 in October 2010.

A total of 16,829 new and resale houses and condos sold in Los Angeles, Riverside, San Diego, Ventura, San Bernardino and Orange counties in October, according to DataQuick. That was down 7.3 percent from 18,149 in September, but up 0.5 percent from 16,744 in October 2010.

"For a few months now, lower prices and amazingly low mortgage rates have kept resale activity slightly ahead of last year," DataQuick President John Walsh said. "Of course, that's not saying a lot when you consider sales were 25 to 30 percent below average. The market continues to struggle with a difficult lending environment, uncertainty among potential buyers, underwater homeowners who can't move up and a weak job market."

The median price for a Southern California home was $270,000 last month, down 3.6 percent from $280,000 in September and down 4.6 percent from $283,000 in October 2010, according to DataQuick.

COLDWELL BANKER BEVERLY HILLS NORTH IS RANKED #1 OFFICE THROUGH OCTOBER OF 2011


Coldwell Banker Beverly Hills North is yet again ranked #1 among Coldwell Banker's offices through October of 2011!  It is an honor to be among the real estate professionals associated with the success of this office and its prestigious ranking!

Florence Mattar
Coldwell Banker Beverly Hills North
301 North Canon Drive, Suite E
Beverly Hills, California 90210
310.927.2777





The Nation’s Top-Producing Office
Beverly Hills North is a proud member of America's oldest and most prestigious residential real estate organization and has the distinction of being the most successful branch office of Coldwell Banker's 100-year-old corporation.

In 2010, more than 190 full-time real estate professionals of Beverly Hills North celebrated another year as Coldwell Banker's nationwide leader, with over 1 billion in sales

Monday, November 7, 2011

Celebrating Thanksgiving 2011

Thanksgiving is a time for families to gather around the table.  According to many sources in the airline industry, more people travel during Thanksgiving than Christmas.  If cooking for a large or small group seems overwhelming, there are a number of wonderful options that are offered this season to make your holidays special.

Thanksgiving Celebration at The Montage

via The Montage Beverly Hills

When: 11/24/2011
Join us for a Thanksgiving 12-station holiday masterpiece buffet brunch, featuring live music and complimentary family photographs in our Ballroom from noon-4 p.m. ($95/adult, $45/children, excluding tax and gratuity).
Scarpetta will also be serving an a la carte dinner menu with traditional holiday selections from 3p.m.-9p.m. Call (310) 860-7940 for reservations.


Cafe Rodeo at the Luxe Hotel Beverly Hills
360 N. Rodeo Drive
Beverly Hills, CA 90210
(310) 691-7655
via www.luxehotelrodeodrive.com
Prix-fixe 3-course traditional dinner with a choice of turkey, prime rib or fish, or choose from the regular menu in the dining room or on the patio. The Thanksgiving menu will be served from noon to 9 pm. Complimentary Valet.

Fig Restaurant
The Fairmont Hotel in Santa Monica
101 Wishire Blvd
Santa Monica, CA 90401
(310) 319-3111
figsantamonica.com
Fig offers farm fresh, seasonal ingredients.  Known for their emphasis on organically grown and locally sourced ingredientsm they are offering organic turkey, buttermilk mashed potatoes and stuffing to take home with you.


Census Finds More Young Adults Living At Home With Parents

Via Huffington Post
November 5, 2011

In Italy, they're known as "mammone", a staple of adult men living with at home with their mothers. In the US, they're known as "losers", and they're on the rise. So much for that "empty nest".

New data from the U.S. Census Bureau shows that the number of men between the ages of 25-34 living at home rose from 14 percent in 2005 to 19 percent in 2011. Women have managed to escape Jezebel's "loser" nomenclature as Cenus data reports that in 2005 only 8 percent of women in the same age brackets lived at home, with the figure rising to 10 percent now in 2011. Furthermore, NPR reports that while the number of men age 25-34 living with their parents has risen 2.2 percent just in the past year, the number for their female counterparts actually dropped 0.8 percent.

While the Census data did not differentiate between "boomerang children" who previously moved out only to return later, and those who never left their parents' home in the first place, the findings dash any notions for an empty nest. Younger adults, those ages 18-24, are sitting in a similar boat with their older counterparts, with 59 percent of men living with their parents (a 6 percent rise from 2005) and 50 percent of women living with their parents (a 4 percent increase from 2005).

Although The Los Angeles Times points out the increase of adults living in their parents' home began before the recent recession, and outlasted it, many weatherbeaten parents and their filial roommates agree that the dreadful economy is most likely to blame, with unemployment rates and rent remaining high and the outlook of starting a proper career remaining bleak. However, the widening gap between the number of men and women who live with their parents is the figure that is stirring up conversation.

Jezebel has a running list of societal norms in question from the discrepancy in parental attitudes towards men versus women to the possibly more negative implications of a women living at home in comparison to a man. AARP's blog thinks the diminishing stigma of retaining one's childhood dwellings may be a factor in the increase of more boomerang children and an American mammone movement.

Home Sales Up, Breaking Downward Streak

Sales of new U.S. homes rose in September after four straight monthly declines, largely because builders cut their prices.

The Commerce Department said Wednesday that sales rose 5.7 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 313,000 homes. Still, that's less than half the 700,000 that economists say must be sold to sustain a healthy housing market.

A big reason for the gain was that the median sales price fell 3.1 percent to $204,400 the lowest since October 2010. The number of new homes on the market was also unchanged at 163,000, a record low.

Sales of new homes fell for four straight months before September and hit a six-month low in August.
March through August is typically the peak buying season. But this year, Americans bought fewer new homes in that stretch than in any other six-month period on records going back to 1963.

The economy remains weak two years after the recession officially ended and the unemployment rate has been near 9 percent since then.

For many, buying a home is too big a risk, even with mortgage rates near historic lows. Others can't qualify for loans or meet higher down payment requirements.

While new homes represent less than one-fifth of the housing market, they have an outsize impact on the economy. Each home built creates an average of three jobs for a year and generates about $90,000 in taxes, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

Last year was also the fifth straight year that sales of have fallen. It followed five straight years of record highs, when housing was booming.

Builders are struggling to compete with foreclosures and short sales — when lenders accept less for a house than a mortgage is worth. Those homes are selling at an average discount of 20 percent, and they are lowering neighboring home values. That's made many re-sales a bargain compared with new homes, creating an average 30 percent disparity in prices.

Home builders started projects in September at the fastest pace in 17 months, a hopeful sign for the economy. But most of the gain was driven by a surge in volatile apartment construction, a sign that many are choosing to rent rather than own a home.

Single-family home construction, which represents nearly 70 percent of homes built, rose only slightly. And building permits, a gauge of future construction, fell to a five-month low.

All home sales remain weak. The number of Americans who bought previously occupied homes fell in September and home sales are on pace to match last year's dismal figures — the worst in 13 years. With three months left to go in 2011, roughly 4.91 million homes are expected to be sold this year. Economists say roughly 6 million older homes need to be sold each year to sustain a healthy housing market.
Home prices have dropped more since the recession started, on a percentage basis, than during the Great Depression of the 1930s. It took 19 years for prices to fully recover after the Depression

Sunday, November 6, 2011

China Real Estate Prices Slowly Declining As Policy Demands Take Hold

Via FORBES - Kenneth Rapoza, Contributor

It’s a “different kind” of housing bubble in China, and it is popping slowly in most cities, with the exception of Shanghai, mainland China’s most expensive.


According to a feature published in China Daily on Saturday, home sales and home prices are on the decline.

Chang Zhi, chief analyst of Century 21 China Real Estate, told the paper that he expects more real estate companies in the second- and third- tier cities to follow in the footsteps of the big realtors and cut real estate prices under the current policy. “A new round of home-price declines may come in one or two months,” Chang said.

China’s government has been faced with rapid appreciation of residential real estate in tier one cities like Shanghai and Beijing. Hong Kong, another entity altogether and rather autonomous from mainland China, has housing prices on par with, or even more expensive than New York City as Hong Kong continues on its path to becoming the Wall Street of Asia.

Sky rocketing housing prices in the main cities on the mainland has exacerbated inflation and increasing income inequality in the country.  The government demanded lower prices by developers.

Despite pressure from existing homeowners, market analysts are expecting more price-cuts as declining sales and increasing inventory are putting more strain on property firms.

In September and October, only 10,743 homes were sold in Beijing, down 46 percent from a year ago. New home sales in the first ten months totaled 69,079 units, down 17.8 percent year-on-year, while second-hand home sales dropped 35.8 percent to 101,188 units, according to the paper.

According to the Centaline Property Agency, a supply of 9,152 new homes in October has added Beijing’s total house supply to 118,000 units, a new high since June 2009. It would take 22 months to consume the inventory even if there were no new supply, the agency told the paper.

The China Daily article did not consider recent housing prices.

A September report by China’s National Bureau of Statistics did say, however, that comparing with the previous month, among 70 medium and large-sized cities, the sales prices of newly constructed residential buildings declined in 17 cities but remained stable in 29 cities. Comparing with the August, the sales prices of second-hand residential properties in September dropped in 25 cities, and remained flat in 21 cities, suggesting China still has a battle on it’s hands when it comes to real estate inflation.

According to the Bureau’s price index of new residential real estate prices, Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, some of the most expensive eastern seaboard cities in China, were flat month over month for properties of all sizes, but are up as much as 6% year over year.  Real estate prices fell September and August in cities like Nanchang and Xiamen. Housing prices are up by as much as 10% in some cities, excluding the major urban centers, year over year.

The trick for China will be to create the regulations needed to curb real estate price increases while not having to resort to higher interest rates at a time when the economy is slowing.

There Goes the Neighborhood

Courtesy of Vanity Fair 


Tucked away in Beverly Hills, the secluded neighborhood of Benedict Canyon is home to the sprawling estates of Jay Leno, Bruce Springsteen, and David Beckham, as well as moguls David Geffen and Ron Burkle. But when a mysterious Saudi prince announced plans to build a big spread of his own—85,000-square-feet big, complete with servants’ quarters and a private “sons’ villa”—the claws came out. Led by Martha Karsh, the hard-charging wife of a billionaire investor, the neighbors have hired a team of lawyers and launched a publicity blitzkrieg to stop construction. Michael Shnayerson documents the real-estate war galvanizing this once quiet Los Angeles enclave.

So far, the famous neighbors have seemed to stay out of the fray. (All declined to comment to Vanity Fair.) Leading the charge for the Benedict Canyon Association is another of the prince’s immediate neighbors: Martha Karsh, whose husband, Bruce, 56, ranks 273 on Forbes’s 2011 list of the wealthiest 400 Americans. A billionaire, Karsh is the co-founder of Oaktree Capital Management, one of L.A.’s largest investment firms, specializing in distressed companies. Said by two people who’ve met him to be a genial fellow, Bruce has attended some meetings but Martha is the campaign’s most vocal advocate.


“Because we’re an adjacent neighbor, we got ‘noticed’ that someone had applied for a grading permit,” Martha explains crisply one early evening at a small gathering of neighbors at the Beverly Hills Women’s Club. She went online to see what the permit entailed. “That was my first clue.” This was in August 2010. To her shock, she saw it was just one of 22 filed for the prince’s property, including ones for a 42,681-square-foot main house, a 4,416-square-foot guesthouse, a 27,317-square-foot “sons’ villa,” 5,327-square-foot staff quarters, an 833-square-foot pool cabana (along with 874 square feet to store the pool equipment), and a 2,713-square-foot gatehouse. “I thought that the square-footage numbers were typos,” she says. “They added up to nearly 85,000 square feet.”


Karsh is a petite woman with fine-boned features and a commanding air. Her fellow activists, along with L.A. councilman Paul Koretz, sit in dutiful silence as she holds the floor. “I had seen the site before. I knew it was really steep, quite inaccessible, and I know construction enough to know this was going to be a commercial-scale project in a pretty, quiet canyon area,” Karsh says. “They were going to try to build Hearst Castle in Benedict Canyon.”


The name on the permits was one Mansour Fustok, who identified himself as the London-based president of “Tower Lane Properties.” When the L.A. Times inquired, his lawyers declined to say for whom Fustok was fronting, though he was known to have ties with the Saudi royal family. Karsh did learn that the buyer was a single father of three. Fustok told the Times his client just wanted to build a “normal Mediterranean-style house” for himself and his “very nice family.” By way of reassurance, a spokesman told the neighbors that the new owner planned to be in residence only one month a year, in August.


The neighbors were not reassured. At their behest, a public-relations firm began blanketing the canyon with four-color flyers that warned residents of the “massive project” planned, with “Thousands of Trucks,” “Years and Years of Aggravation,” and “Permanent Degradation of the Canyon.”




Karsh hired lawyers who soon claimed that one of the permit applications, requesting a lot-line adjustment, appeared to be faulty: it described the property as “vacant residential lots” and said the proposed use was “same,” when in fact seven structures were planned. As disconcerting to the neighbors, the new owner, through his representatives, refused to let the neighbors view the architect’s in-depth drawings.


The buyer, whoever he was, was only the latest newcomer to fall in love with the steep hills of Benedict Canyon. From the early days of Hollywood, actors prized its easy access to the studios and downtown, even as it remained a rugged landscape dotted with California sycamore and scrub oak trees. One of the first arrivals was Rudolf Valentino, who built Falcon Lair on Bella Drive, high up the canyon’s west side. John Barrymore lived just above the Tower Lane site and rode horses all over the hills. Charlie Chaplin was virtually around the corner on Summit Drive. Sunday tennis games at his place, recalled King Vidor’s daughter, Suzanne, years later, were “played for blood,” with Chaplin “out-acing everybody.”


By 1926, Vidor had left his wife and married actress Eleanor Boardman. It was for her that he had architect Wallace Neff design the house on Tower Lane, where the Sunday tennis games continued on the court that now sits neglected just inside the gates.


By the 1950s, the canyon was filled with stars: Danny Kaye, Fred Astaire, and Cary Grant. One house alone on lower Tower Road was home, at different times, to William Powell, George Hamilton, and Merv Griffin. Jack Lemmon, then a Benedict Canyon resident, joined in the fight against Manoukian involving the property where James Coburn had lived.


Gradually, all the buildable spots in the canyon got built on, and so a new era began—of large retaining walls built into the steep hillsides, backfilled to create level “pads” on which new and larger houses could be built.
To everyone but their owners, the retaining walls were eyesores. Two of the worst went up on Davies Drive, supporting vast, adjacent estates in the air. The retaining walls were each at least 30 feet high and looked like sections of the Great Wall of China. Partly due to those twin atrocities, a limit was set on retaining walls: one wall of up to 12 feet high or two tiered walls of up to 10 feet each. One day before the ordinance went into effect, in 2005, movie producer Jon Peters, who then owned the Tower Lane property now at the center of all the controversy, got a permit to build a retaining wall more than 20 feet tall.


To some neighbors, even more galling than the wall’s height was its design: a polygonal pattern that struck one resident as resembling a giraffe’s skin. The giraffe wall, as it became known, looked even worse, many thought, when it was painted green. Peters, who did little to ingratiate himself with his neighbors in the 13 turbulent years he owned the property, did leave them with a parting gift. When the L.A. Times asked him earlier this year if he could confirm the actual buyer of his property, he was willing to oblige. It was Prince Abdulaziz bin Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud.


Prince Abdulaziz wasn’t just your average Saudi prince. He was said by some to be the king’s favorite son, and was soon to be named deputy foreign minister of Saudi Arabia. Accustomed to a life of privilege, he wasn’t likely to cave in to the wife of an American billionaire.


It was Peters who had left the Tower Lane property looking as if a tornado had hit it. He was the tornado. From his famous early days as a Rodeo Drive hairdresser who parlayed his romance with Barbra Streisand into producing her remake of A Star Is Born, to his white-hot decade’s run with co-producer Peter Guber (Flashdance; Batman; Rain Man), to the debacle of his co-chairmanship with Guber of Sony Pictures, from 1989 to 1991, Peters had whirled through the movie business re-arranging everything around him. As he did, he bought one trophy property after another, re-arranging them too. Until, that is, he ran up against Martha Karsh.


“I always wanted to be Walt Disney,” Peters explains. “I wanted to create my own version of Disneyland.” Before Tower Lane, there was a home on five acres in nearby Beverly Park, which he turned into a private zoo. “We had 100 animals—llamas, bulls, goats, pigs . . . You’d see four or five Mexicans walking the animals. If you want to see a lot of rich people get mad, try having your emus shit on their sidewalk,” he recalls fondly. When a mudslide nearly buried his downhill neighbor, Peters moved on to Tower Lane. He started by putting in those Art Nouveau gates. “I’ve done a dozen houses,” he says. “They always have that Art Nouveau look.”


Next to the old King Vidor house, still standing when he bought the property, Peters built a below-ground auto showroom for his Ferraris. That was done by permit and remains. Unpermitted, however, was the equestrian center at the bottom of the property, with stables and a riding ring and a number of garden walls.
All was well, Peters says, until he befriended Martha Karsh, and she asked him to let her do some work that required equipment to be run through his driveway. “One time I came home and there’s 20 trucks in my front yard,” says Peters. “I couldn’t even get in; they were landscaping her hillside. I said, ‘Martha, you have to ask first.’ From that day on, it was war.” (Martha Karsh declined to discuss her dealings with Peters.)
Peters had a war going already with his wife, Mindy. Their split became so bitter that Peters tore the whole house down. “I made a huge mistake,” he says now. “It was such a beautiful, charming house. But I was going through a divorce . . . I was pretty crazy.” He then had architect Richard Landry draw up plans for a two-story Mediterranean-style mansion, with three guesthouses, to replace it. When he started by trying to get a gatehouse approved, the Karshes, he says, lobbied against it. “They couldn’t even see it,” Peters recalls. Before long Martha Karsh was “busting my balls on anything else she could find. I couldn’t afford to spend $5 million on attorneys.”


Peters says the Karshes then tried to buy the property. “I wouldn’t sell it to them because she turned into such a monster,” he says. One observer close to the situation says Karsh did send out feelers, and Peters rebuffed them. (Martha Karsh denies this.)


With a showman’s bravado, Peters put Tower Lane on the market in 2008 for $39 million. Then came the market meltdown—and Madoff. “I was a Madoff victim,” Peters says. “I did lose a great deal of money with him and other people.” But that, he says, wasn’t the reason he sold, or eventually dropped his price. “The main reason was Karsh—she won.” In the end, the prince got Tower Lane for $12 million. “I have nothing but good things to say about the prince,” Peters says. “The truth is he is doing the right thing. . . . [Martha] made me cancel my dreams. She was mean for no reason. And I was nice to her. ”


His name notwithstanding, Prince Abdulaziz remains a cipher, hidden behind his representatives. He declined to be interviewed for this article. Though almost no one in California knows him well enough to speak of him with any insight, one of the few is his former interior designer Jarrett Hedborg. The L.A.-born-and-bred decorator, who’s worked for Jack Nicholson and Anjelica Huston, Jeff Bridges and Jim Carrey, along with Bette Midler, Joni Mitchell, and Michelle Phillips, has done four homes for the prince over a 20-year period. But a rift grew between them before he could start work on the Tower Lane property. Now he’s suing for what he alleges is nonpayment of his last bill. “It’s sad to watch a friendship unwind,” he says of Abdulaziz. “But unfortunately, he did not honor my last contract.” An associate of the prince’s denies this claim, telling Vanity Fair that there is an ongoing dispute regarding billings for the prince's Paris home.




Despite the lawsuit, Hedborg remains fond of the prince—and the prince’s ex-wife, and their three children. He describes a Westernized Anglophile, tall and trim, who is, at the same time, a devout Muslim; an ardent fan of In-N-Out Burger and Calvin Klein T-shirts, a fun-loving, minivan-driving Prince Hal who’s grown, over the years, into a statesman more apt to be seen in a white robe and red-checked keffiyeh secured with a black cord agal, in the company of bodyguards.


One key to understanding Abdulaziz, says Hedborg, is the prince’s mother. Worldly and Westernized, Princess Aida whisked her three children—Abdulaziz and his two sisters—around Europe and made them tote their own bags. Abdulaziz went to college in England and then returned to serve in the Saudi royal family’s national guard—with some distinction, according to one seasoned Saudi watcher. Quoting a Western military adviser who knew Abdulaziz then, the Saudi watcher says the prince “was shunted aside into a big office, and the people around the king made sure he didn’t have anything to do.” Frustrated, Abdulaziz began edging into the political arena through his father (then the crown prince). With his new bride, Princess Abeer bint Turki—also a member of the royal family—he cut a higher social profile. “They were sort of the glamour couple in Saudi,” Hedborg says. “The Jack and Jackie of that period.”


Hedborg started by decorating the couple’s new 40,000-square-foot first home in Riyadh. Then he took on their California getaway: a 30,000-square-foot house in Beverly Park, next to Princess Abeer’s father. (The prince, he discovered, had a playful sense of entitlement: once in a restaurant, he admired the shoes Hedborg was wearing. He asked to try them on, and found they fit him perfectly. Hedborg offered to buy him a pair. “But these are so broken in and comfortable,” he said. So Hedborg gave them to him and walked out of the restaurant barefoot.)


The third home they worked on together, in Jeddah, measured well over 150,000 square feet, Hedborg says. For a decorator, it was both a dream and a nightmare: what to do with all those rooms? One solution was to create a showroom for the prince’s car collection, which included a 1963 Sting Ray split-window fastback coupe, an early-60s two-door Facel Vega, and an Aston Martin DB5, of James Bond fame.
Why the glamour couple divorced in the early 00s, after having two sons and a daughter, is not an issue Hedborg will discuss. According to him, the prince married again some time later, but this marriage, to another Saudi princess, ended after just four months. (Through his associate, the prince declined to discuss his personal life.) Though the prince remains a warm father, Hedborg says, he shed many of the friends from his days with Princess Abeer and grew more isolated. Perhaps he was just taking on a more ambassadorial mien: according to Robert Lacey, author of the 2009 book Inside the Kingdom, Abdulaziz became an emissary to Lebanon and Syria for his father, who became king in 2005, at the age of 81.
LAW & DISORDER Ben Reznik, 60, the prince’s attorney.

The divorced prince sold the Beverly Park estate next to his ex-father-in-law and focused on a new home in Paris, a spectacular Beaux Arts mansion on the Avenue Foch built in 1915 for the car-maker Louis Renault. The property is about 20,000 square feet, says Hedborg. Plus a full acre of enclosed garden. Once again, Hedborg had to rack his brains to decorate so many rooms—about 50 this time. One was decorated entirely with antique steering wheels mounted in frames.


Abdulaziz hadn’t lost his love of L.A. After looking at dozens of properties, he settled on Tower Lane. Peters’s two-story main house had not yet been approved but the plans called for it to be about 19,000 square feet above ground, with a basement and Peters’s underground auto barn bringing the total square footage to 33,400. In 2009, Hedborg met with the prince in Riyadh to show him a preliminary design for the Tower Lane house. Could the prince really fit all his needs into that space? Hedborg asked him. Yes, said Abdulaziz, he thought he could.


Yet, Hedborg says, in the following months, the prince’s plans grew dramatically. Soon there was a whole separate sons’ villa, and, beside that, servants’ quarters tucked partially under the lawn. “The city will never let you build this,” Hedborg says he told the prince’s architect Richard Landry. “Each staff bedroom has to have daylight access and a fire-escape route.”


It wasn’t long before the prince stopped calling.


By early 2011, the neighbors’ campaign had escalated. Lawyers peppered local officials with letters attacking the suspiciously filled-in application for a lot-line adjustment. “A subterfuge,” declared one lawyer. “False and misleading,” thundered Michael Chasteen, president of the Benedict Canyon Association. Chasteen urged L.A.’s city attorney to investigate, whereupon the city attorney’s office referred the matter to the district attorney for possible criminal investigation. The accusations were reported in more four-color flyers, and the neighbors duly stirred, but they went nowhere: the D.A. found them groundless.


The giraffe wall also came under heavy fire. The lawyers, from L.A.’s prominent Latham & Watkins, called it flatly “illegal.” Peters hadn’t gotten all the permits he needed, the wall was higher than allowed, and work had stopped at some point, so whatever permits Peters did have had lapsed, they claimed; now the wall would be subject to the new retaining-wall ordinance and thus have to be torn down because it was too high. Yet the city ruled the wall was legal—grandfathered in—and the permits valid.


Behind the scenes, the prince was winning on every issue. Even so, he was not deaf to the concerns of his neighbors. Apparently a meeting with Mike Ovitz had proved persuasive in getting him to downsize. According to a source involved in the talks, Ovitz pointed out that the sons’ villa would overlook his compound, as would some of the servants’ quarters. Ovitz, it would seem, was not keen on having people peering down into his yard. So in early May, the prince decided to scrap the sons’ villa and servants’ quarters, reduce the size of the main house, trimming the overall square footage to 60,000.


The neighbors were unimpressed. A new flyer warned of “ear-splitting noise through our canyons” from the “Enormous on-site rock and debris crushing. . . . At least a dozen barriers and retaining walls—some over 500 feet long and 35 feet high. . . . Choking dust as widespread site grading pollutes the air.”
From his corner office on Avenue of the Stars, in Century City, attorney Ben Reznik, 60, has one word to describe the charges hurled at his client by Martha Karsh and the Benedict Canyon Association. “Fabrications.”


What the prince purchased from Peters, Reznik notes, was three contiguous parcels, all quite large for the area. Relative to how much space the prince had to build on, the footprints of his two main houses would have been smaller than those of most of his neighbors’. Ovitz’s house and outbuildings, for example, appear to take up at least as large a percentage of his property.


The neighbors’ early suspicions, according to Reznik, were simply unfounded. The lot-line application wasn’t “false and misleading” in stating the “vacant” land would stay the “same,” since it would continue to be unoccupied for at least two years, until construction was finished. As for not showing plans? “Do you think for one second that Bruce Springsteen is going to submit his house plans to the public?” Reznik asks. “It undermines any security he could possibly try to create. . . . Would Jay Leno ever tell anyone where all his exit doors are and where all his windows are and where he sleeps? Not on your life. Should the deputy foreign minister of Saudi Arabia have to do that?”


While the plans were under review at L.A.’s Department of Building and Safety, the Karshes’ lawyers did examine them. They then claimed the plans showed that the main house would actually measure 73 feet high—a true tower on Tower Lane. They said the middle lot alone would have seven retaining walls. Reznik was outraged: all these new, sensational details, he says, were flat wrong. The spokesman for the L.A.D.B.S. also discredits these charges. The plans for the middle lot have two retaining walls—not seven—of no higher than 10 feet and no retaining walls of 35 feet were planned, he said. As for the height of the planned house, it was never anywhere near 73 feet high.


That’s not to say that everything on the property was according to Hoyle. The giraffe wall, for starters, had code violations. The equestrian center Peters had built without permits had accumulated a trail of city-issued “orders to comply,” like so many parking tickets, requiring him to undo it all. Even the ground he’d pushed around would have to be re-graded. The prince stood ready to do all that work. But when the Karsh’s lawyers studied the plans, they smelled a rat.


Now that the sons’ villa was nixed from the design, only modest leveling was needed on that lower parcel to satisfy the “orders to comply.” Why, then, did the prince’s new plans call for a much larger pad? More curiously, why was the prince now proposing to put a modest 5,100-square-foot house on the pad, where the 27,000-square-foot sons’ villa was to have gone? To the neighbors, the smaller house looked like a placeholder. At some point after he had his permits, they feared, the prince would build a gargantuan villa there after all.


Reznik doesn’t deny the 5,100-square-foot house is a placeholder, explaining that the only reason the small house is in their designs is because the city requires a plan for a house to accompany a plan for a pad. For now, the prince has no particular interest in building on that pad, Reznik says. However, if he does, he’s not likely to build a house that small. “This is some of the most expensive real estate in the United States. You don’t take a very expensive property and put a little postage-stamp house on it.”


But to build a pad large enough to support a big house, the prince has to re-grade a lot of hillside. And that has led, as of mid-October, to a striking development. The city now says that the prince must get special clearance to do all that re-grading. This extra clearance process, in turn, allows the city to demand a detailed environmental review called a ceqa (for California Environmental Quality Act). The upshot is that the city is now reserving the right to nix the project without having to prove the prince ran afoul of a rule. In addition, the L.A.D.B.S. has put a stop to the work the prince’s contractor was doing to bring the giraffe wall into compliance because, it claims, less than “substantial” work was done.


At its whittled-down scale, the prince’s compound would still be a sizable addition to Benedict Canyon. But not the largest. Across the canyon from the prince’s property, the boxy white contemporary home of Hyatt hotel heir Anthony Pritzker is nearing completion. According to an insider, it weighs in at nearly 80,000 square feet. Somewhere off Doheny, he adds, another behemoth is under construction: the 78,000-square-foot residence of Eric Smidt, chairman and C.E.O. of Harbor Freight Tools. Reznik has compiled a list of 11 neighboring properties that, he says, required major re-grading yet sailed through the permit process without a hitch, and without a peep from the neighbors. Why this costly campaign against the prince?


“Let’s get to the real issue,” says Reznik. “If it was truly about a concern for the neighborhood, the environmental issues, they would have long ago accepted our invitation to sit down and go through these items so we could respond to them. . . . They don’t want to hear the yeses because they don’t want a Saudi prince.”


Contacted through an emissary named Adnan Haffar, Prince Abdulaziz declined to comment directly. Haffar does, however, relay the prince’s feelings via e-mail. “I would like to point out this: the prince has bought 5.3 acres of land and this constitutes three separate lots. The design of the house [abides] by all the laws of the Los Angeles building department. . . . The neighbors led by Mr. and Mrs. Karsh raised a lot of complaints so the owner decided to reduce dramatically the whole project.”
Despite this, and despite the fact that there are, as Haffar writes, “a lot of houses that have been built or are being built that are as big or much bigger than this house and had none of this attention,” the opposition persists. “Is this ethnic prejudice?” the emissary wonders.


“We’re not opposing the person,” says real-estate broker Michael Eisenberg, one of the neighbors involved in the campaign. “It could be an Internet gazillionaire. It’s the project.” Martha Karsh notes that opposition to the project began “seven months before anyone even knew who the owner was.

Ultimately, unless the prince gives up in disgust, final permits for some fairly large residence on Tower Lane will almost certainly be granted. How long construction will take, clogging the tiny roads with trucks and workmen, is hard to say. The Karshes’ own renovation on Tower Grove took seven years, as Martha Karsh notes on the Web site for Clark & Karsh design; that’s one reason she knows about construction. The prince’s liaison with the community, Bill Christopher, has said the Tower Lane compound will be done in two and a half years. That’s assuming that after the main house and grounds are finished, the prince doesn’t move on to build the sons’ villa after all.


For Mary Beth Abdo, who, like Springsteen, lives at the foot of the Tower Lane property, even two and a half years seems interminable. She and her husband, Ashley, moved from Switzerland a year ago to a Spanish ranch-style house—boxy, wood-walled, and, at 4,000 square feet, modest for the neighborhood—so their children could attend school nearby. “This seemed perfect—a little slice of real country and lush landscape in the middle of L.A.”


The prince’s representatives have met with the Abdos, she says, and told them they’ll limit the trucks to one every 10 minutes. “The builders have said they’ll have flagmen. How reassuring is that?” Abdo and her husband were asked what could be done to mollify them. “Don’t work on Saturdays,” she replied. “At least give us our weekends.” But to date, the plan is to work Saturdays from eight a.m. to five p.m. “Our bedrooms are right on the lane,” Abdo says.


She stops to listen to a country stillness she may not hear for long. Why, she muses, did the prince want to bother with all this mess? “There’s plenty of 56,000-square-foot houses for sale,” she says. “Couldn’t he have found one of those?”